Mountain Multi-Cultural Multi-Faith Group

1 John 1:5
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
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2 Corinthians 4:6
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
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Windmajik,

I used to have a very serious problem with alcohol. So serious, in fact, that I would often times sit in my apartment and think about what happens after death. The feeling was very "cold." There's more to it than just that one word, but that about sums it up.

My grandmother died from a combination of lung cancer and AIDS. It's hard to tell which one got her first. I was only 13 at the time and AIDS was a relatively "new" virus. Grandma was a woman of great faith. She died with no fear. I know because the whole family was there when she left us.

These days when I ponder the afterlife and what becomes of us after death, I don't feel "cold" anymore.

I'm always one to make a plug for Jesus. The Jews of his time were expecting a political savior; someone to bring them out of bondage and create a "utopia" of sorts in this life. Instead they got a very different kind of savior, one who reassured them that the sufferings of this life are only temporary, and that something much better awaits.

Peace to you. I hope you find what you're looking for.

-Jon

And the light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not

I have a question...okay I have a few. How can one know what the darkness can or cannot comprehend? If darkness is able to comprehend, have you not just hurt it's feelings by judging that the darkness is unable to comprehend the light? Perhaps darkness is perfectly happy being lightless. Why must the darkness be cast as the evil villain just because it is without light? Ultimately, just who are you to judge the darkness?

All silliness aside....darkness is the absence of light just as the night time sky is void of the sun that lightens the daytime sky. Both light and dark have equal but different values within our world.

Embrace the darkness and know yourself

If we are comparing the existence of God to the properties of light and darkness, it is worthy to note that Light has a source, whereas darkness depends on the absence of that source for it's existence.

That's the difference between Heaven and hell.

Hi Windy, Thinking of you and yours. You are really on to something. Unconditional acceptance and unconditional love can heal many things and I'm happy for you and Allen that his family is able to get beyond the past and move on and free all of you from things which cannot be changed. We have only one day, today, in which to operate and make our decisions and reality minute by minute. Love and Blessings to all of you, Nynah

If we are comparing the existence of God to the properties of light and darkness, it is worthy to note that Light has a source, whereas darkness depends on the absence of that source for it's existence.

You compared light and dark to heaven and hell....one being a positive reward, the other being a negative punishment.

I compared light and dark to day and night. We live half our lives in the darkness and thankfully that is nothing to fear.

Embrace the darkness and find yourself

In the absence of all light, it is a true gift to find oneself in pure darkness for that is the place where one can honestly face all fears, embrace them, allow them to wash over and transcend them.

Willow, Nynah, J, Cricket, Betty, Neil, Spooky and anyone I missed, thank you so much for your input, insight and words of encouragement.

While I don’t look at darkness as a bad thing I can understand the metaphor. It’s like at 3am when everything is dark and quiet and you’re left lying in bed with your own thoughts. Sometimes your own mind is the scariest place to be. I can say that since finding the peace of mind that I have sought it’s an easier place for me to be than it ever was before.

It truly warms my heart to see the way everyone in Allen’s family has pulled together for him. Yesterday he got a visit from one of his other sisters and her husband and also (I almost fainted) his son and granddaughter. His son truly despises me and he and Allen aren’t as close as they could be. It went a long way towards showing Allen how much he is loved that his son was willing to put aside his hatred of me to come and visit his father. I can admit for that visit I was glad that we had just had a sofa-bed delivered for our family room because it gave me an excuse to not sit and visit as I had to get that room back in order. I harbor no ill feelings towards him but it was slightly uncomfortable for me having him there.

Hugs Willow right back and reaches out to include Windy and the rest of the gang.

Windy, I rarely have the time to visit here, I usually only pop on for a couple of minutes once a week or so, and I hardly ever post. But somehow I was guided to your thread and your post at a time when I could respond. Some would call that a coincidence. I think God is answering your question through His people. That is my faith as a Christian.

But as you know, I respect others' faiths and beliefs and I think what you have seen from the responses here is an incredible outpouring of loving support to sustain a truly remarkable woman, whatever you believe. Love is the greatest gift of all, and it has been demonstrated in abundance in this thread. (((HUGS)))

This has been an interesting discussion to follow. Doug Adams is both a genius and an athiest... and it is difficult to read any of his works without taking time to examine the foundations of your beliefs for weaknesses or gaps. I appreciate his intellect.

Encountering the reality of God was to me one of the inescapable events in my life that left me little room for choice about my beliefs. From that point on, that verse that said, "The heavens proclaim the glory of God. The skies display his craftsmanship." was entirely apparent. "Proof" was everywhere... It wasn't quite what Stuart Chase meant when he said, “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” But pretty close. I saw proof of God in the ordinary and in the extraordinary. In the rhythms of daily life, in the answers to ordinary prayers and in sunsets that stole my breath and in what, without other explanation have to be regarded as miracles. It seemed pretty evident to me... but at some level it would be necessary to respond to this knowledge

Where it says "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments." Jn 14:15... I had to decide if there was value in changing what I did with the rest of my life... if I was to look at my life as a gift... that gave me some opportunity every day... Was this God asking anything of me? Did I owe any sense of gratitude, or obedience? The decision for me was simple and obvious and one I have never regretted, doubted or turned back on.

It might be worth looking at CS Lewis' Mere Christianity.

Been re-reading The Fifth Sacred Thing and in the story, the prophet Elijah asks Maya "Hasn't it occurred to you that redemption might have changed it's form in the last few millennia? How could it not? Is not God change?"

Maya goes on to say "Jehovah? Doesn't sound like him."

Elijah answers with "Goddess, then. Does it matter so much, or the form of the mythical genitalia? Maya, for year after year, generation after generation, I have been fed each spring by women. I have tasted the spring and the tears and the blood until something in me wanted to rise up and dance, to roll in the mud. I'm a changed man, Maya. Can't you see? The Messiah I herald has become the redemption of the earth."

great story, btw...but even though I have read this book a few times, this was the first time that I spent much in the way of meditating on the phrase "is not God change?" Could one say "is not change God?"

...things I am pondering

Malachi 3:6 - "For I am the Lord, I change not;

James 1:17 - "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

I think this is a profound intellectual debate, and I also think that there is no way to prove this one way or another. Spiritual truths are beyond the capability of the mechanics of our thought processes to prove or disprove. It's not that spirituality is ambiguous, its that it exists so far outside our realm of perception, we can't entirely grasp it. And, where it does intersect, we sometimes make correct assessments, and sometimes wrong.

Donald Miller, in Blue Like Jazz, puts it this way, "My most recent faith struggle is not one of intellect. I don't really do that anymore. Sooner or later you just figure out there are some guys who don't believe in God and they can prove He doesn't exist, and some other guys who do believe in God and they can prove He does exist, and the argument stopped being about God a long time ago and now it's about who is smarter, and honestly I don't care."

But, for me, the reality of faith penetrates my tangible reality on the Earth with the relational component. I know God exists because I have a relationship with him. I can no more prove that I love God than anyone of you could prove that you love your spouse or significant other. Love, after all, is ethereal, emotional, physical, and spiritual. This applies to my relationship with God. I experience him through his love and grow in that relationship through my reciprocal love. I can't prove this logically or scientifically or linguistically. It just is an "is" in my life. And, the best way I know how to share it is to demonstrate it with every fiber of my being. I can tell people all about it, but living my relationship with God provides a tangible example of his reality in our physical world.

Just my thoughts.

Change is the only constant. We humans can forgo love in the face of war or violence but change is the only thing that...is always there, is always present, is always happening even as I type. And while I believe in the circle and the cycle of life, it's more like a spiral, winter is always winter but every winter is different. Spring brings re-birth but the re-birth is that of a new generation. Everything changes so why would one think that Divinity would remain stubborn, rigid and unyielding, not given over to the very elements that exist to show us the face of the Sacred Divine...the fluidness of water, the transformation of fire, the fertile growth of earth, the winds of change? If we are either Gods and Goddesses or are created in the image of God and we change, evolve, grow, then why wouldn't that which created us not do the same?

I have come to learn that God is not outside ourselves, not something to arrive at, a destination, a paradise to wait for. For me, the Sacred Divine permeates every thing, is every thing, becomes every thing, creates every thing. There is not one place or one person who is without "God"...as within, so without, as above, so below.

Is not God change? God is the epitome of change.

Perhaps it has to do with being eternal and timeless... God existing somehow not only in everything and everything existing in God... but God also existing outside of time and outside of creation.

There's a biblical quote I heard that goes something like this
'If any of ye lack wisdom, ask of God.' So if you want to know if there is a God, ask with a sincere heart and you will have an answer.